Topic: I would like to dispute something... (Read 2,546 times)
Shinova 死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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I would like to dispute something... « Thread Started on Feb 19, 2004, 4:43pm »
To quote from your walkthrough: "She almost destroys Roa completely using her Marble Phantasm,"
"she" being Arcueid. Now, I assume you're talking about the part where she basically "blows" Roa up into lots of little pieces. Your encyclopedia says Marble Phantasm is imagination realization, but how does her destroying Roa seem anything like Marble Phantasm?
Greatness invites envy, which unravels the fragile bonds between people. Being someone special warrants a terrible price.
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #1 on Feb 19, 2004, 6:17pm »
Quote:
To quote from your walkthrough: "She almost destroys Roa completely using her Marble Phantasm,"
"she" being Arcueid. Now, I assume you're talking about the part where she basically "blows" Roa up into lots of little pieces. Your encyclopedia says Marble Phantasm is imagination realization, but how does her destroying Roa seem anything like Marble Phantasm?
Just wondering.
I'm not sure if blowing up Roa in the anime was an accurate presentation of how it was in the game, but Marble Phantasm is an abilty of controlling natural events completely under her will so it covers an infinitely broad range of effects. If she wanted an explosion like that, she would just have to imagine that there is a bomb at that location. It is that kind of ridiculous ability.
Now quoting from the game: "Roa's body vanishes instantly. Getting bent, getting chopped, getting compressed. Literally there was only his ankles left"
I'm thinking that was kind of like a black hole effect where it eats into the space that Roa was standing and turns it into nothingness. Also, I'm certain what she used here is Marble Phantasm because Roa said something like "Oh, using your Image Realization?" right before this.
Reality Marble on the other hand is a restricted version of Marble Phantasm. It can only be performed in a bounded area and only does what the sorcerer is capable of doing.
At least that's how I think it is, from what I know.
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #2 on Feb 21, 2004, 3:57am »
Now that I read back the post, I think my explanation sucked. Let's look at another example. In Melty Blood, Arcueid performed the Marble Phantasm, in her full extent of power. She made the Crimson Moon, that's said to only appear once in 1000 years, appear instantly. I'm not quite sure what this Crimson moon is and its relationship with the "other" Crimson moon is but it was powerful enough to make Warakia a phenomenom. Making that moon reappear reversed that effect and Warakia returned to a normal vampire. And so Arcueid's Imagination Realization was not only able to create a Crimson Moon, but it also carried the power as the original.
In conclusion Arcueid's Marble Phantasm can realize virtually anything possible. As long as that something or some event is possible to exist on the face of this earth at any time or any place, she'll be able to reproduce it. (It might be limited to Arcueid's knowledge though, since she's the one that has to imagine it)
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #3 on Feb 21, 2004, 4:17am »
Oh yes, and to answer your question. In my theory, making Roa explode like that is probably one of the easiest thing to realize. That reflects how much Arcueid was weakened at the time.
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #4 on Feb 21, 2004, 5:28am »
The problem is, that Marble Phantasm can only effect to the Nature, not the life itself that is independent from the Nature(Reality Marble can but there is many restriction). So Effecting directly to Roa's body won't work. But she can change the environment around him.
I think it was written in Tsukihime-aohon, by Kinoko, it was something like Arc imagined the blade around Roa cuting him down, or somthing. I dunt hav the Aohon wiz me right now, so it may not b accurate though...if you have it, then Just check it, the dictionary part "Marble Phantasm".
sssssz Master of Entropy and Chaos member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #5 on Feb 21, 2004, 7:32am »
For what i know, Arcueid didn't blow up Roa, just she minced him. Nasu San said that he was thinking about 'a radish being pureed in a food processor'. So he wanted to write 'Arcueid pureeing Roa with blades of vacuum.' if you read the battle carefully it says something about the window and walls being cracked. That would explane the blades of vacuum, because she didn't directly used materealized the spaces destruction but she materealized blades destroing the spaces. (Image materealization can't affect anything unnatural!)
Greatness invites envy, which unravels the fragile bonds between people. Being someone special warrants a terrible price.
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #8 on Feb 22, 2004, 12:09am »
Quote:
Okay, just so that I understand and that I can make some sense of everything:
Arcueid cut Roa apart with vacuum blades? Like using the air as blades or such?
According to sssssz's source yes.
I just wanted to elaborate and point out that she doesn't directly damage her opponent using magical energy but creates something in natural space that will cause them to get damaged.
Shinova 死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #9 on Feb 22, 2004, 8:36am »
Ah, I think I understand now.
She can destroy Roa's body in as many ways and as many times as she wants because it exists in the physical universe, but she can't do anything about his spirit until Shiki came along, correct?
Greatness invites envy, which unravels the fragile bonds between people. Being someone special warrants a terrible price.
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #10 on Feb 22, 2004, 12:04pm »
So......
Is it possible to use Marble Phantsm inside the reality marble? If reality marble is "High level ability to create a bounded space of their own, outside the law of nature", then this world itself is unnatural.
And if so, then how was she able to use it to destroy Warakia, who became phenomenom by bringing Reality Marble to the area he appears...in Melty Blood??
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #11 on Feb 22, 2004, 1:33pm »
Quote:
Ah, I think I understand now.
She can destroy Roa's body in as many ways and as many times as she wants because it exists in the physical universe, but she can't do anything about his spirit until Shiki came along, correct?
Yep, you got it
Man, I feel like I wrote all the evidence for a paper but forgot to write the thesis.
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #12 on Feb 22, 2004, 10:21pm »
Quote:
So......
Is it possible to use Marble Phantsm inside the reality marble? If reality marble is "High level ability to create a bounded space of their own, outside the law of nature", then this world itself is unnatural.
No. Reality Marble isn't used to perform Marble Phantasm within it. It is used to create a working space to use the sorcery that the sorcerer specializes in to their full (or unlimited) extent. Those two are very similar because the performer is using their full power in a world that is most advantageous to them. But what's different is that Marble phantasm is one all mighty abilty in the natural world that we know in, while there are many different Reality Marbles. Like the alternate name Innate Bounded Barrier says, each of them are unique and creates a different "world" within it. Note: This is putting together what I know, in a way that makes the most sense to me.
And if so, then how was she able to use it to destroy Warakia, who became phenomenom by bringing Reality Marble to the area he appears...in Melty Blood??[/quote]
She used Marble Phantasm, read post above that start off with "Now that I think about it...". The one that actually destroyed Warakia, in his normal vampire form, is Shiki and his line of death.
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #13 on Feb 23, 2004, 4:33am »
I mean....
I think I understand the Reality Marble and Marble Phantasm. What I meant was, She won't be able to use Marble phantasm while in, for example XXXXXX(Character from Fate)'s Reality Marble, right?
And if so, then How was she able to use Marble phantasm while in the Warakia's Reality Marble? Yes, it was Shiki, who destroyed Warakia but it was Arc who used marble phantasm to bring Crimson moon and put Warakia back from phenomenom to normal vampire.
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #14 on Feb 23, 2004, 1:06pm »
Quote:
I mean....
I think I understand the Reality Marble and Marble Phantasm. What I meant was, She won't be able to use Marble phantasm while in, for example XXXXXX(Character from Fate)'s Reality Marble, right?
And if so, then How was she able to use Marble phantasm while in the Warakia's Reality Marble? Yes, it was Shiki, who destroyed Warakia but it was Arc who used marble phantasm to bring Crimson moon and put Warakia back from phenomenom to normal vampire.
Ah okay, I gotcha. Well thinking in reverse order, in reality she did use er Marble Phantasm within Warakia's Tatari Reality Marble, so the answer is yes you can.
In my hypothesis, I'm thinking that Reality Marble is like painting the imagination of the sorcerer on the world. That's why Marble Phantasm can still access the natural world through or over the thin layer of coating.
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