Topic: I would like to dispute something... (Read 2,547 times)
sssssz Master of Entropy and Chaos member is offline
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 2,141 Location: Seoulburg, Koreastein
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #15 on Feb 26, 2004, 8:07pm »
If you read Melty Blood scenario carefully Arcueid can do whatever she wants to do in the story!
When warakia summons Castle Brunestud he makes one deadly mistake.
Catle Brunestud itself is Arcueid's reality marble (doesnt directly say it but many dialogue refers the catle as Arcueid's relity marble.)
Apparantly Arcueid is more powerful than warakia, so warakia's marble phantasm was obsolete inside the castle. Than she can do whatever she wants to do!
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #18 on Feb 27, 2004, 2:12am »
Quote:
I just know Arcueid = World, so she's ridiculosly powerful. It's also funny she has the power of "earth" when she's the "moon" pricess. >_>
Well, though she's modelled after the people of the Moon, she is a creation of earth, so it's natural that she utilises earth's power...
Maybe that's part of the plan all along...since 朱い月 is now Ultimate One of nothing but a pile of rubble (the Moon), maybe his plan is to "take over" Arcueid's body, which is of Earth creation, and hence become the Ultimate One of Earth instead! Presumably, as Ultimate One he'll have the power to change the Earth into his vision of "True World"...[/random rambling which may have tons of loopholes in it]
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #20 on Feb 27, 2004, 9:45pm »
Quote:
i gotta make something right
Arcueid is ridiculously powerful indeed but she aint the ultimate one!
Type-Moon (Brunestud I) is dead now and while he was dying he created two sinsoes - Arcueid Brunestud and Altrouge Brunestud.
Two of them were no good enough for the Brunestud I so he ceased to exist in neither of them.
So Arcueid is neither Type Moon or Type Earth
Type Earth is the no 1. apostle the Primate Murder (stupid Nasu San. It should have been Primal Murderer).
Even though Primate Murder is a monster of Giga, it isn't Type Earth either...as I understand it, Earth doesn't have the ability (the means?) to generate Type:earth by itself, which was the reason why it had to "borrow" the Ultimate Ones from other planets to counter humans - Type:moon (Crimson Moon), sensing this oppurtunity, tricked Earth into creating the True Ancestors, the pinnacle of which was Arcueid (Altrouge came close, but was deemed a failure).
My guess about this was that Type:moon promised Earth that by accepting him into Earth's life system and creating a species that copied Type:moon, Earth would be able to create its own Type:earth to fend off humans. However, although what came out did draw its power from Earth, it was a people of the Moon, and hence under the control of Crimson Moon. However, the True Ancestors hated Crimson Moon and didn't really want to follow him in conquering Earth and creating the "True World"...and before Crimson Moon could bring them completely under his thumb, he was killed by Zelretch. That's why I think the True Ancestors, Arcueid in particular, are a species who have the potential to become Type:earth (and perhaps Type:moon as well).
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #21 on Feb 28, 2004, 2:15pm »
Gah...The topic went so far, I'm starting to get confused...
Primates Murder, is right word i think. Primates as where human kind belong (Reicho, in japanese). But he stands in the position, absolute priority in killing of Human Kind, which is probably one of the reason he is not Type-Earth. He is Ultimate against human, but not as the one in the planet. ...although he is said that as powerful as Crimson Moon...
Then, What about Monster of Araya, appeared in Karano kyoukai and also Kagetsu toya? Although it probably is not Type-earth, wouldn't he show absolute priority in killing Primates Murder?(Or whatever that against human kind)//and Type-Earth on top of them?
>Two of them were no good enough for the Brunestud I so he ceased to exist in neither of them
I thought Arc was in the level of Crimson moon. But she was created after the Crimson Moon defeated by Zel. and also she limit her ability.
Chaoticreign sounds right, after reading the book came wiz Prologue DVD.
Crimson Moon's Reality Marble was, to create his copy (Shinso) that contains crimson moon himself within their mind. Therefore all the Shinso after him is copy of Crimson Moon, although most of them did not reach the level of Ultimate-one. His reality marble still kept after his death(?), and then Arc was created.....I think. But this was also result of the Earth's desire to create his/her own king...?
and Arc is Still princess, not King, or Queen, which also shows she has ability to become Ultimate-one.
....still confused.....Dunt know what I'm saying...guess its easier just wait till Tsukihime2 comes out ( if it is releasing...
By the way..... I thought Catle Brunestud was Arc's Marble Phantasm...
I was wondering about dark six. What the heck is he/she?
Greatness invites envy, which unravels the fragile bonds between people. Being someone special warrants a terrible price.
Shinova 死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
Gaian Progenitor
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 741
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #23 on Feb 29, 2004, 12:20am »
Okay.....slowly now....
Earth...or Gaia...doesn't have the power to create a guardian of itself, in other words, a Type-Earth, as the other planets can. It wants to do this because the human race is spreading across its surface at an increasing rate and the planet fears the possibility of the humans damaging it in the future.
Okay, to take opportunity of the situation, the Type-Moon arrives on Earth and convinces it to let Type-Moon into its circle/system of life. Using that, Type-Moon creates a race of beings that use the Earth as their source of power but are under the will of Type-Moon, hence called "Moon people," or the Shinso.
A quick question here: Did Type-Moon create a race, complete with different individuals and personalities, or did he create just a bunch of clones?
Anyway, moving on. Type-Moon wants to use the Shinso as a sort of army to bring Earth under its dominion to create a "True World," whatever the hell that is. The Shinso, not yet fully under the control of Type-Moon, resist. Before Type-Moon can make the final move to bring the Shinso fully under his control, he is destroyed by the human Zelretch. (Speculation: The other "Types" invade Earth in the future to exterminate Humanity due to this event and of the fear of what humanity could do to them?)
Now, what follows I'm not clear on. The Shinso, after Type-Moon's destruction, then just exist as happily as can be on Earth, but are they, from that point on, the only Shinso in existence or are new ones created or born occasionally? What brings new Shinso into existence? Is it some leftover magic of Type-Moon? (his leftover reality marble, or something like that)
So are new Shinso like Arcueid created as a result of this leftover magic? Would no Shinso be born if the dead Type-Moon's magic or reality marble were to be fully eliminated one day? No new Shinso have been seen ever since Arcueid wiped out the entire race, so what does this mean? Or what if the Earth were to be destroyed one day either by natural disaster, the Humans themselves, or by alien invaders? (ORT of the 27 Ancestors is, for all intents and purposes, an alien)
One Tsukihime artbook depicts a young Arcueid (standing with Zelretch?), so Shinso probably do grow up like humans do to an extent, or at least some of them do. What do you guys think? Could any of you clarify?
Greatness invites envy, which unravels the fragile bonds between people. Being someone special warrants a terrible price.
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
Sore-desu!!
Joined: Dec 2003 Gender: Male Posts: 4,042 Location: Tokyo
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #24 on Feb 29, 2004, 4:02am »
Yay, I love these deep discussions on Tsukihime =D
>A quick question here: Did Type-Moon create a race, complete with different individuals and personalities, or did he create just a bunch of clones?
It's the earth that created the Shinsos using Type-moon(Crimson Moon) as a model. not Type-Moon itself. I think that's why like any other beings on earth, they each have personalities/power differences and grow up to an extent.
>Now, what follows I'm not clear on. The Shinso, after Type-Moon's destruction, then just exist as happily as can be on Earth, but are they, from that point on, the only Shinso in existence or are new ones created or born occasionally?
No they aren't happy even after Type-Moon's destruction because they can still fall and become an evil existance. They were all born with that curse. In a way, even after Type-Moon is killed, all Shinsos were originally born with a small Type-Moon within them, from the beginning. How new Shinso's are born is still a mystery but they were decreasing in number because many of them fell. Moreover when Arcueid fell, most, if not all of them were killed by her.
"True World" - I don't know what the "True World" is but Type-moon destroyed it's own planet trying to make one It's now wanting to make Earth into one too. Earth, on the other hand is getting destroyed by its own beings when it's such a caring mother figure. >.<
" Dark six" - I think there's a hint of " dark six" in the Aristoteles story in "notes". In that story, there was a being called the "Six sisters - No.1 saving system to earth" They are six female being who looked like witches and they ruled the demi-humans in this world. This futuristic world is a world of disaster and nature is already destroyed to its limit. Only a few human beings and demi-humans remains but even then, they were still fighting each other. The Earth cried out for help and all the other Aristoteles came to kill alll the remaining humans. The demi-humans and humans cooperated to fight off these aristoteles. The main character was a human who fought against these Aristoteles, but that's another story. This world isn't connected to Tsukihime but using its idea of the "six" and "system", I think it doesn't point at a single dead apostle, but a group of them. The only dead apostle that comes up to mind is the dark colored Altrouge Brunestud. Her and probably 5 more Dead apostle makes up the dark six? (Primate murder, White knight, Black night, etc.) And they perform some kind of powerful and evil magic together that may change the state of the entire earth? Maybe regenerating means they can only do it at a specific time, when power charges up? What happened when the last time it was performed?? Is it realted to the "True World"???
"Type-Earth"(or Type-Gaia) - There was never a Type-Earth. I think a requirement to be one is to be perfectly immortal and all mighty in our standard? like God?
They're mostly just speculations for fun, but I'm pretty sure with the Type-Moon/Shinso relationship.
sssssz Master of Entropy and Chaos member is offline
Joined: Mar 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 2,141 Location: Seoulburg, Koreastein
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #25 on Mar 1, 2004, 9:44pm »
Earth could not create its guardian itself I'm kinda hazy where i got this info, but that is why Earth brought Type Moon into its system. Also Earth was not able to create the guardian itself or restore itself, so Earth brought the most powerful existence of Moon, the 'Observer' of Earth. ....
And considering Earth is only planet with intelligent life and no guardian... Maybe HUMAN could be the Type Earth. In story human is most powerful (Shiki is human, Zelretzi was human, Aozaki Aoko is human.....) and almost immortal (human race, i mean). Crimson Moon was killed by Zelretzi. If Crimson Moon is the most powerful being of Moon that means Zelretzi's power is above the most powerful being of Moon. Arcueid, the most 'suspected' queen of Shinso was also once 'killed' by a mere human. If Human is not Type Earth those stuffs wont make sense.
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #26 on Mar 2, 2004, 4:42am »
>I think it doesn't point at a single dead apostle, but a group of them That probably makes sense...more sense than some six-headed being anyway Or it could be six souls existing in one body, aka Nero but on a more controlled scale (similar to Quick Ben, if you've read Steven Erikson before). A bit like Shiki(is she Shiki too?) (main character of Kara) having many physicalities, except on a spiritual level...
"The first and the last" - I'll intrigued by this line, actually. At first look it looks like it refers to it being the first and last death apostle...but since Warakia's challenge to the "sixth law" was revealed (well, hinted at) as being the sixth magic, I'm thinking that maybe the first and the last refers to "the first and last magic"? Fate/side materials says that the first magician is dead...and death apostles can be human in origin, so...baah, it's likely another lunatic theory that has 0.001% of being correct. XD
>Crimson Moon was killed by Zelretzi. If Crimson Moon is the most powerful being of Moon that means Zelretzi's power is above the most powerful being of Moon.
Zelretch cheated though Crimson Moon didn't know about "magic," which was outside the rules of normality...
>Arcueid, the most 'suspected' queen of Shinso was also once 'killed' by a mere human. It WAS a surprise attack...plus Arcueid didn't die from it, so I guess it doesn't count.
Shinova 死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #27 on Mar 2, 2004, 11:45pm »
I was looking at the description for the dark six, and I noticed six diadems of darkness, which also means the six crowns of darkness.
Yes, this could easily mean the six highest dead apostles, or the six highest of the darkness, hence the six crowns of darkness.
But there's that part about it currently regenerating. So I had a theory:
Maybe the dark six really is one individual dead apostle, but its real name is unknown. It posseses the six crowns of darkness (an artifact? A magical power? An extension of itself?).
There's that theory. Cause the regenerating part is difficult to be attributed to six individuals in my opinion.
Joined: Dec 2003 Gender: Female Posts: 412 Location: Kara no Kyoukai
Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #28 on Mar 3, 2004, 12:54am »
There are much info on the Dark six other than the fact that Tsukihime 2, if it will ever be made, will be base on that. From another forum I believe a line was also mentioned as a preview for Tsuki 2 in Kagetsu "The six dead apostles including me, thus fulfiling the requirement, The Dark Six will activate." The six dead apostles' identities are unknown but I think it was mentioned that Trhvmn Ortenrosse and Enhance are part of the group. Supposedly in Tsukihime2 they, with Trhvmn as the head, gathered in england planning on reviving the Dark Six(?). Since Trhvmn seemed to be the mastermind behind this, I doubt Altrogue is involved considering their bad relation to each other.
Reality Marble don't complete make the area their world, its more like an area negating certain laws of this world. Thus Arcuied will still be able to use her Marble Phantasm inside a reality marble. On a side note, an interesting thought was brought up considering marble phantasm: That Arcueid, as the princess of the Shinso, communicates her wish to the world, and Gaia answers the desire of her children by reshaping the environment around her.
EvoSpace アカシャの蛇 Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: I would like to dispute something... « Reply #29 on Mar 3, 2004, 3:02am »
I think I heard of that Tsukihime2 story too, but Trhvmn and Enhance shouldn't get along either: Trhvmn is a traditional vampire while Enhance do what he likes, that he even killed his parent vampire. Moreover, Enhance is said to be one of the main character, cooperating with Shiki, so he's the one who will be kicking the vampires' asses. I'm thinking Trhvmn and Altrouge will cooperate for the dark six, but by not fully trusting each other. I bet Altrouge is the one, being the stronger of the two and having an important role in the storyline, ends up using him, and she is probably the final boss of the entire Tsukihime saga... But considering Kinoko-san's famous plot twists, there must be an higher being than her! (All these thoughts for a game that is non-existent, lol)
>its more like an area negating certain laws of this world.
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