Topic: About Kurenaisekisyu.... (Read 1,352 times)
Crimson kń\µc@The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Thread Started on Oct 11, 2004, 2:51am »
...I'm totally not-confident in spelling the word, but whatever.
According to Hisui's arc, Akiha's powers allow her to drain a certain part of the opponent (within her line of sight) of its heat, making that specific body part freeze up and crumble away.
But the description is slightly different in Kohaku's. While we're still on the draining concept, the script says 'Akiha can burn the target while she's alive, but the flame is illusionary. Killing her will make the flame disappear as well', or something close to that.
Then in Melty Blood you see her practically burning the target to death. Maybe Watanabe screwed up a bit, but then again, since Type-Moon DID participate in the project, wouldn't they have pointed it out if it was wrong?
A more reliable source may be the Tsukihime Tokuhon, but this is confusing me even worse, because I have two translations that are saying totally different things. One says 'ęśįĄ (means burning) seems to be Akiha's power, but it was sealed off'. The other says 'ęśįĄ can be mistaken for Akiha's power, but her power is ŌŠĢæ (roughly meaning freezing)'. Arghhhhhh....
Then there's one more thing. The Tsukihime Tokuhon says that 'ķĒęš' (erm... heating? burning? whatever.) is actually a power native to the Kishima bloodline, which forces all Kishimas into going Kurenaisekisyu. But in Kagetsu Toya, Kishima Kouma was acting a lot more like the Incredible Hulk rather than Akiha, wasn't he? He didn't do ANY draining or burning while fighting Nanaya Kiri.
Exactly what sort of power is Kurenaisekisyu? For one thing the real Tohno Shiki went berzerk, but wasn't Kurenaisekisyu. So it's not a word that just means a hybrid gone wild. Akiha went Kurenaisekisyu, and so did Kouma. But those two had completely different powers. (or maybe Kouma 'did' have some burning abilities, as said in the Tokuhon, but just didn't use it?)
So I'm violently confused. Does anyone have a good theory about this?
And could someone please look up the Tokuhon and check what it says about Akiha under the 'Kishima' section?
Hmm... hope I didn't give away who my favorite heroine is...
sssssz Master of Entropy and Chaos member is offline
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #2 on Oct 11, 2004, 6:20am »
Kouma's power is to burst. Everything he grabs burst... That's why in Kiri vs. Kouma battle scene, all trees just fall down even though Kouma didn't hit those hard...
And... Kurenaisekisyus are when demon blood in hybrids' body take over their body. They are considered demons, not human.
Shiki going berzerk is different from hybirds... He just goes berzerk and uses tiricks Kiri taught him when he was 5 or 6. So it has nothing to do with this bloodline.
Crimson kń\µc@The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #3 on Oct 11, 2004, 6:37am »
Er... by Shiki I meant Shiki(2). Especially in the Far Side arcs... (Shiki(2) in Near Side is more Roa than Shiki so..)
He goes berzerk due to the Tohno blood (and Kohaku's miracle drugs, but more of the blood), but no one calls him Kurenaisekisyu. (AND he's got white hair, pulling him even more off the track)
He does have special abilities, mainly a rather durable body and the ability to control his own blood, but he isn't Kurenaisekisyu. Another big fact that rather confuses me.
Crimson kń\µc@The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #5 on Oct 11, 2004, 7:19am »
Hm.. I thought a hybrid is called Kurenaisekisyu when his/her hair goes red and is surrounded by a red 'aura' (though the aura is only visible to Shiki...).
Shiki saw that aura on Kouma (during the invasion), and on Akiha (Kohaku arc.), but there's no reference about Shiki(2).
If Śćļ®=Kurenaisekisyu... then obviously I was dreadfully mistaken... rats
Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #6 on Oct 11, 2004, 10:38am »
I think that the term "kurenai sekishu" reffers to the state where half demons (hybrids), their demon blood goes to the limit and that being stops being a human. Even if the name makes refference to the color red, I think that this state has different outcomes depending on the subject.
For instance, Akiha's power and Koumas power. They are different but both are related because they come from their demon blood.
Now concerning Akiha. I think that her power is to drain the life out of people. The abrupt change of temperature of the target body compared to the temperature in the environment creates the ilusion of flames. What they did for ReAct is that the added to flames just for visual help (imagine Akiha figthin with no flames).
An now, concerning freezing.... I have no idea . Sorry.
Those are just my two cents about the topic. Sorry if I got anything wrong.
I believed that the only reason for me to live was to fight... One fight after another... But now, I want to believe that there is something more...
Crimson kń\µc@The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #7 on Oct 11, 2004, 10:58am »
Hm... so Kurenaisekisyu is more of a state rather than a certain ability, it seems. That's why Kouma goes Terminator while Akiha goes pyro? (well not quite, but..)
Whatever happened to Shiki(2) then, anyway? On the far side he's quite far from Roa, he has his unique abilities, he's quite strong, but he's still not Kurenaisekisyu... (I'm quite sure on this one, mainly because of the hair color and the aura. Considering what Nanaya Shiki said in Kohaku's arc...)
Hm.. maybe Security's right, maybe he wasn't strong/berzerk enough? (after all, Akiha managed to toast him without any apparant difficulty, so....)
..OK, I think I got that.
Just have to figure out what Akiha's power does, then. hm...
Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #8 on Oct 11, 2004, 11:08am »
By my patheticly limited translation skills, Kurenaisekishu just means 'crimson red blood', so my feeling is that Lex is right, and it's more metaphoric then literal. Probably, Akiha looked good with red, and made a good throwback to the reference, but a redheaded Shiki^2 looked like a dork(or else they just thought enough characters had red hair as it was).
Just think of it as Type Moon's version of characters going Night of the Orochi, and leave it at that.
As for Akiha, it's probably just play with fantasy powers. Cold burns at a low enough temperature, and 'cold flames' are pretty common in RPGs, so look at it as something along those lines.
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #9 on Oct 11, 2004, 11:26am »
Yes Kurenaisekisyu refers to those who has 'reversed', where the non human blood became active.
Akihas power is to drain the energy out from others. The rapid loss of energy manifest itself as a burning sensation when in fact you are' freezing' from the loss of energy.
EvoSpace AJVĢÖ Serpent of Akasha member is offline
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #10 on Oct 11, 2004, 11:39am »
Quote:
Yes Kurenaisekisyu refers to those who has 'reversed', where the non human blood became active.
Akihas power is to drain the energy out from others. The rapid loss of energy manifest itself as a burning sensation when in fact you are' freezing' from the loss of energy.
Right. And she herself gains heat energy, her hair turns red, and raises the temperature of her surrounding environment.
I don't think we have seen Kouma's Kurenai Seikishu powers yet. I'm trying to include that in my Tsukihime 2 fanfic. ^^;
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #11 on Oct 11, 2004, 12:23pm »
Quote:
By my patheticly limited translation skills, Kurenaisekishu just means 'crimson red blood', so my feeling is that Lex is right, and it's more metaphoric then literal.
I have always seen it as "gŌé" (Kurenai Seki Shu), meaning something like "Crimson Red Vermilion" (or, in Latin, "Coccineus Ruber Vermiculatus"/"Coccinea Rubra Vermiculata").
Akiha is the Caloriraptrix (she who takes away heat).
Crimson kń\µc@The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors member is offline
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Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #12 on Oct 11, 2004, 12:49pm »
I was actually under the impression that the particularly powerful/berzerk/both ones of the 'reversed' hybrids were called Kurenaisekisyu... (and yes, the characters mean Crimson Red Vermilion.. or just Red Red Red ).
In Kohaku's arc, Shiki says something like 'A color redder than red... the Nanayas call it 'Kurenaisekisyu..'', which in my opinion puts a lot of emphasis on the color.
Then there's another time when a young Shiki looks at Kouma and says 'The red haze behind him is in control. He's powerful, but he won't last long.' Shiki mentions that red haze when he was confronting Akiha as well..
So my idea was that a lot of hybrids 'reverse', losing their mind to the demon blood, but only ones that have those traits (red color, haze, and all) are called Kurenaisekisyu, and are considerably more powerful.
...well, that was the only explanation I was able to make about that huge difference in ability between Akiha and Shiki(2)... (she toasted him without getting a scratch in Kohaku's arc, and would have done the same in Hisui's if Shiki didn't interfere...). There's also the fact that Nanaya Kiri, who ate a considerable number of hybrids for breakfast, wasn't even able to stick some decent damage into Kishima Kouma...
...but then again, I didn't go through Kagetsu fully, so I wouldn't be the best informed.... so heck.
Re: About Kurenaisekisyu.... « Reply #13 on Oct 11, 2004, 1:34pm »
That might be a contextual fault of mine then.
My dictionary has both 'Vermillion' and 'Bloody'(among other things) for that particular kanji, so my thought train made the jump to 'fiery red blood', hot-blooded, things of that sort. Bloody as in actual blood, rather then bloody as in blood-colored Which fits in with every incarnation of this type of berserking, in every series/game/etc that I've seen it come up in, including Tsukihime. But in retrospect, your context seems more likely.
I still think the Orochi characters from the KOF games are likely what the guy had in mind when he came up with this concept though. They're extremely, extremely close in most all respects, from visualization, to triggers, to source, to unnatural heat eminations, to the change of hair color into red, etc. They're just, you know, Tsukihime-ized, instead of straight rips. The only real differences I can point out between the two, is that it doesn't seem to result in *total* insanity in Type Moon world(whereas Orochiites have no normal thought whatsoever, and just go kill-crazy), and that Orochiites can recover, whereas Kurenaisekishu's apparently a permanent change when it happens.
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